Baroque
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... Growing pains for a rookie goalie - ANY rookie goalie - are always ugly, and most teams have had to go through them at some point. Detroit hasn't in years and years. It's like a baseball team that tries to get by without ever seeing the growing pains of a rookie pitcher. Commit to getting him starts, and he will lose games by fielding poorly, giving up home runs, getting flustered and nervous and walking too many people; bring him in as a reliever and he will cost the team games by coughing up late leads. But let him try to work out of jams, and learn from his inevitable failures, and work through a rookie wall, and by the end of the season a talented young guy with good stuff but no experience whatsoever becomes Rick Porcello, staff ace-in-the-making, confident starter, and beater-down of Kevin Youkilis. Steep learning curves are inevitably ugly, but making mistakes is the only way to learn. Fleury was ghastly his first year and then some in the league, but the whole team was so crappy that it didn't matter - he could be allowed to learn because they were going to lose a ton of games anyway. Now he is fine. It just took a while. Include players whose developmental years were in Europe as well as in the minors, and good teams tend to avoid going with rookie goalies unless they have no choice because they want a proven goalie if thye have any chance to win at all. Sometimes that just isn't possible although it is the safe choice. Taking a step backwards in the short term to take more steps forward in the long term? I at least think it is possible that is what the management is thinking. |
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Waltdetroit
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... I think all opponents get up for the wings and play a faster game, especially when we are down and playing soft (the go-for-a-kill, now-is-time-4-revenge syndrome as we have been cleaning them off the ice for years). Howard still just doesn't impress overall and there is not enough great play to project great potential. I like Howard. He makes some excellent saves but doesn't seem to be thinking a step ahead when it comes to rebounds or his own position when he flops. Neither do the defencemen. The wings have too many new players to be real consistent as yet on the forward lines (and yet we keep scoring)which leads me to my greatest contention of the RW's; what is happening to our vaulted defense? These are all vets (except Eriksson)with years of playing together but look confused and out of position. They should be leading the team, the pillars of strength. We should be winning 3-1 or 3-2. We don't seem to hold 3rd period leads but are able to come back when down multiple goals. Babcock feels we have enough forwards and I agree. It is the play of the D that sucks. (On another note (I vent)- last year when Chelios was on his farewell tour the Wings kept Meech, a small versatile smooth skating/passing defenceman instead of Quincey, a bigger body who moved people from in front of the net, with a great shot. We need different strengths from our defencemen and someone who is a physical presence in front of the net is a needed asset. Ledba could play forward when needed. In hindsight I wish it was the other way around as I don't see the wings keeping Meech next year.) Are we old or tired or just small? Wishful Scenario - The Caps buy out Nylander and he takes a 1 year contract with the wings for the difference in $$. I believe he is owed $9 mil total for this & next year. Do the wings have to feel that they are throwing in the towel for the year to bring up young skill? No. Do they really need more forwards in Detroit? No. We need a good face-off center for the 4th line if Draper moves. How is McGrath? I have only heard Jesper mentioned as a face-off artiste. |
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r0bert8841
said:
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... I think you are being fair. I really don't think Howard looked bad at all. I get so confused why everytime Howard is in net it looks like the opponents get soooooo many chances handed to them on a golden platter. Is Howard just out of position alot so he has to make rediculous saves to bail himself out or is he giving up too many rebounds? I don't know, I think he has a problem covering up rebounds quickly, but he has definently looked better then Ozzie this road trip. I don't understand how the Oilers had so many great chances. I haven't taken the time to count but I bet if you were to count, Howard made more saves on these great chances then he let it. Then one Hemsky goal on the PP is the only one I fault him for. I totally agree that people saying Howard isn't NHL ready is soo annoying. He isn't bad out their at all. Watching Thurs game, who would you say was the better goalie, Khabi or Howie? cause Khabi let is some pretty weak goals, actually all of them were pretty saveable except maybe Ericsson shot that was deflected and the Z one. I just hate it when people say that, how can someone honestly write that who is watching the games because he looks much better than ozzie out their. |
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Graeme
said:
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... I've never been impressed with Howard. However, he's the back up we have this season. It's not what I wanted, but it's what we have. As far as I'm concerned, he should get just about every start for the next 2 months or so. Let's get him comfortable in net and see what he's capable of. Given that the rest of the team doesn't give a fuck about winning, I see no reason to call him out specifically. At this point I'm looking for bright spots wherever they come. The good news is, if this team doesn't live up to expectations, next summer will net us more changes than this summer did. In theory what was done this summer was good. It may still prove to be. If not, I trust the logic under which the front office is laboring, and I think the team will be back on track sooner rather than later. If not this season, next; if not next season, the one after that. That's how it goes. As I've told all my girlfriends and I now tell my wife, I'm in a long term relationship with this team. I enjoy the ups, so I weather the downs. In the meantime, I'm just avoiding any and all headlines that mention the Penguins. Unfortunately, since you made the site over, you're flashing penguins in my face, Kyle. I don't like it. |
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RobRo
said:
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Goal 2 Honestly, I think you're giving Penner too much credit for Goal #2 above. I watched the replay a few times, and it looks like the puck goes off the shaft of his stick and past Howard into the net. Granted, it doesn't change anything from Thursday. I thought Howard was solid on Thursday. He didn't look good, but most of the goals were not his fault as you pointed out. I'm a bit upset with the D on the 5th goal. How are there 3 Edmonton guys allowed to stand on top of Howard just whacking away at him? It was a good non-call by the official to let them play, but someone needs to be punished in front of the net. I'm sick of watching other teams take liberties with our goalies without seeing a defender make them think twice about coming near our goalie. Look at what other teams were allowed to do to us last year during the playoffs. May can only fight so many people. The defenders need to step it up big time. |
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KyleKujawa
said:
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... Good stuff guys, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's ready to ship Howard down the river because I felt that way when I was writing that last night. Hence the attention to detail. He needs to be better for sure. Baroque hit the nail on the head. Whether you bring them in at 21 or 25, there's still a learning curve. Ideally at 25 they're more experienced, but that doesn't mean it's easier for them to adjust. Howard at 21 was much heavier, much slower, and, if you can believe it, even more of a guesserflopper. As much as I didn't like it at the time, Howard needed every minute that he got in Grand Rapids and I hope Larsson and McCollum get the same treatment. I just think it boils down to fans not remembering what we've gone through with goalies because it's been so long since we didn't just sign a free agent to fill a hole. And, in all honesty, I think less of Howard than I do of Larsson and McCollum. I didn't expect he was going to come in and challenge Osgood for the starting job. Unfortunately that's kind of happened, since Osgood seems content to try to lose it. Robert, I agree, the goals that Khabibulin let up were worse. Helm just plain beat him high, not exactly a sniper, Eaves' goal was pretty weak and he just wasn't set. Z's was flukey, Ericsson's was a perfect shot but still -- no traffic. I wonder what some people might say if Howard let up a goal from that location right now. Bert's was a nice shot too, but I'm not sure how set Khabibulin was. Walt, McGrath's game is more tailored to the 3rd or 4th line. I really do like where he is at right now. But was I was thinking was that, if Detroit lost tonight and came back to Detroit and struggled, they might want to bring up a high-skill prospect and just throw them in the fire. Five or six games for a prospect isn't going to ruin him. Who knows, they might get really lucky. Graeme, I do apologize. Do what I do, don't think of it as a penguin, it's a bloguin. I don't know what that means, but either way.. it doesn't look intimidating, penguins never do. RobRo, I'm not sure whether or not he definitely batted it in, but I did want to emphasize how perfect his timing had to be for that. He got there just in time. That's the kind of goal you score when you're on a good streak -- that's the kind of goal Detroit isn't scoring this season. |
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Waltdetroit
said:
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... Kyle - Yes I see what you mean about bringing up some "high-skill", I thought you might be thinking the season is on the ropes already. We could bring up someone for a few games. I was just saying the RW's have Abie, Eaves, Helm, Leino etc who are kinda in the same boat & that could use the time to prove their worth too. Detroit Red Wings Scratches PLAYER REASON V Filppula Broken Right Wrist J Ericsson Flu-like Symptoms A Johnson V Leino Healthy |
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BrianW
said:
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... Just saw this. I know your primary objective here was to look at Howard's performance, but I want to mention that Stuart was substantially at fault on both the first and fourth goals. On #1, he turned a mildly dangerous stuation, a 3-on-2 low in the zone, into a a 2-on-1 by going at the oiler in the corner. On #4, Hesmky was in a cherry-picking position, and with Rafalski receiving the pass attempt, Stuart should've been hedging defensively. |
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KyleKujawa
said:
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Stuart Nice catch. I'm with you on the first goal, that was a poor read. I don't think Stuart or Howard realized that there were three Oilers in the mix, just looking at how that all developed. 2-on-2 that's the right call, get right on the passer for pressure, but that wasn't the case. It's these little mistakes that are costing Detroit the most. I'm just not sure about the fourth one though. I watched it again. The play by Bertuzzi was bad, and it looks worse each time as there were already two Oilers around Rafalski. I'm not really sure what Rafalski was doing before he received the pass, if I knew maybe I could blame him a little bit too. Stuart got caught flat-footed, but Hemsky's a great skater, and he was gone as soon as Bertuzzi made that pass. While he probably should have been backing off, the play happened way too quickly and I don't think he would have been able to do much. I definitely see your point, but I'm not certain what Stuart could have done differently, other than look a little less lost as Hemsky sped away. Good observations, though. |
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